Fwd: [bmdc-wg] Trans women competing in women's sports

Forwarded Conversation
Subject: [bmdc-wg] Trans women competing in women's sports
------------------------

From: "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:32 PM
To: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

Hi Folks,

The debate on trans women in women's sports is unfolding among many people whether any of us likes it or not. Canceling and demonizing people will not change this fact. To those of you who want to demonize BMDC, if you want to continue bullying us, then maybe you should be bullying Cornel West as well, if you have any consistency at all, which I doubt. Your lust for summary expulsions will not advance the debate in any way, shape, or form. 

Cornel West has taken a position. It is described in the Karen Hunter Show on YouTube. His response is to have 3 categories in sports. He is asked the question at about 18:45 in the video and his response is at about 19:15 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1HCAmx3xrc  Cornel West is running for President and is likely to be the Green Party candidate. He uses the phrase "biological constitution of human bodies" to justify his position. I do not endorse his position, but that doesn't matter to anyone out to shut down  BMDC. Cancel culture is not about reason and logic. Cornel West has a right to have his opinion which is very similar to Jane's position on women's sports. Demonizing people will not resolve this issue, but history will. 

John

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From: Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:38 PM
To: "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>

Yes!❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

---

From: bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net <bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2023 9:32 PM
To: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Subject: [bmdc-wg] Trans women competing in women's sports

 

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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:48 PM
To: <xulingkelley.bmdcantitrans@blogger.com>

Subject: [bmdc-wg] Trans women competing in women's sports
------------------------

From: "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:32 PM
To: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

Hi Folks,

The debate on trans women in women's sports is unfolding among many people whether any of us likes it or not. Canceling and demonizing people will not change this fact. To those of you who want to demonize BMDC, if you want to continue bullying us, then maybe you should be bullying Cornel West as well, if you have any consistency at all, which I doubt. Your lust for summary expulsions will not advance the debate in any way, shape, or form. 

Cornel West has taken a position. It is described in the Karen Hunter Show on YouTube. His response is to have 3 categories in sports. He is asked the question at about 18:45 in the video and his response is at about 19:15 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1HCAmx3xrc  Cornel West is running for President and is likely to be the Green Party candidate. He uses the phrase "biological constitution of human bodies" to justify his position. I do not endorse his position, but that doesn't matter to anyone out to shut down  BMDC. Cancel culture is not about reason and logic. Cornel West has a right to have his opinion which is very similar to Jane's position on women's sports. Demonizing people will not resolve this issue, but history will. 

John

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From: Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:38 PM
To: "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>

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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:50 PM
To: <xulingkelley.transphobia@blogger.com>

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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:48 PM
To: <xulingkelley.bmdcantitrans@blogger.com>

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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:54 PM
To: <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

Cornel West isn't in our activist working space you transphobic fuck!

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From: Rita Fiorillo <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:57 PM
To: Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>
Cc: "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>

We don't agree with him either. Cornel West also didn't personally attack our Trans friend and call her a man. This isn't about Cornel West. It's about BMDC. If Cornel West wants to join BMDC than we can all sit down and have a conversation with him about it but that isn't the case. I'm also willing to go out on a limb here and say that Cornel West wouldn't approve of the way Jane talked to Lita or how David used far right talking points like "gender cult", or how John is a tyrant that won't follow his own democratic process and give Dhruba access to the email list. If Cornel West behaved in that manner, I'd be more than happy to tell him to fuck off too. No one is beyond reproach.

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From: Justin Kosuk <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:57 PM
To: John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

John,

What does that have to do with 2 people being expelled?  

I still don't know what a summary expulsion is. You have yet to explain this to me. 

Also, if you read my email on trans women in women's sports a few weeks ago, I believe I gave a concise explanation with cited sources and statistics that make clear the dangers of having opinions that were shared by the two who were expelled on a majority vote. There was no bullying. I'll be sure to send the email again in case you missed it - but I don't think you did.

For the record, I'm against the party Cornel West began his campaign on. I've withheld my support so long as he ran under the People's Party, and it looks like I have another reason to withhold my support. 

Next time John, do not make assumptions in an attempt to get your point across. 

Thank you, 

-Justin Kosuk

On Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 9:32 PM "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net> wrote:

Hi Folks,

The debate on trans women in women's sports is unfolding among many people whether any of us likes it or not. Canceling and demonizing people will not change this fact. To those of you who want to demonize BMDC, if you want to continue bull ing us, then maybe you should be bullying Cornel West as well, if you have any consistency at all, which I doubt. Your lust for summary expulsions will not advance the debate in any way, shape, or form. 

Cornel West has taken a position. It is described in the Karen Hunter Show on YouTube. His response is to have 3 categories in sports. He is asked the question at about 18:45 in the video and his response is at about 19:15 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1HCAmx3xrc  Cornel West is running for President and is likely to be the Green Party candidate. He uses the phrase "biological constitution of human bodies" to justify his position. I do not endorse his position, but that doesn't matter to anyone out to shut down  BMDC. Cancel culture is not about reason and logic. Cornel West has a right to have his opinion which is very similar to Jane's position on women's sports. Demonizing people will not resolve this issue, but history will. 

John

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From: Padma Balasubramanian <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 9:58 PM
To: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

I came into this discussion late.

Reportedly there were other comments made which included something about bathrooms and how trans women should not be using bathrooms that are meant for "women" which was completely inappropriate and unjust.

In any case why discuss this sports issue when there are issues that affect livelihoods, healthcare and safety of trans women and men which are of paramount importance. We have to show solidarity in words and action.

I don't think continuing this conversation has any merit.

As I have said before BMDCs statement on Trans rights was very good and we need to focus on that.

Also all the other work around immigrant rights, workers rights, anti imperialist work. Teamsters may be going on strike soon and need our support.

Thanks

In solidarity

‐‐----‐--------

Hi Folks,

The debate on trans women in women's sports is unfolding among many people whether any of us likes it or not. Canceling and demonizing people will not change this fact. To those of you who want to demonize BMDC, if you want to continue bullying us, then maybe you should be bullying Cornel West as well, if you have any consistency at all, which I doubt. Your lust for summary expulsions will not advance the debate in any way, shape, or form. 

Cornel West has taken a position. It is described in the Karen Hunter Show on YouTube. His response is to have 3 categories in sports. He is asked the question at about 18:45 in the video and his response is at about 19:15 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1HCAmx3xrc  Cornel West is running for President and is likely to be the Green Party candidate. He uses the phrase "biological constitution of human bodies" to justify his position. I do not endorse his position, but that doesn't matter to anyone out to shut down  BMDC. Cancel culture is not about reason and logic. Cornel West has a right to have his opinion which is very similar to Jane's position on women's sports. Demonizing people will not resolve this issue, but history will. 

John

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From: Rita Fiorillo <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 10:08 PM
To: Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>
Cc: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

You are absolutely right Padma. This conversation has no merit. Votes were tallied and decisions were made. That should have been the end of it, yet here we all still are. BMDC either stands by it's own declarations or it doesn't. We could all move on from this but a few members can't seem to let it go.

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From: "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 10:59 PM
To: Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>, queenritamonkey@gmail.com <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>
Cc: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

The campaign for expulsions and the demonization of Jane came precisely after Jane's posts on Women's sports. This is undeniable. Cornel West is a candidate for President. He may very well end up being the candidate that Justin and Mike support. Yet none of you will condemn him. It is easier to condemn and cancel Jane. Lita is quick to call me a "transphobic f---" but will never seek to condemn Cornel West. I think BMDC is owed an apology. 

John

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From: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 10:59 PM
To: xulingkelley@gmail.com <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

Lita,

Cornell West is "The Left".

Cornell West is the Grewn Rainbow Party candidate, Mike Heichman is supporting Cornell West.

So it is allowed too have a different position as long as it is not inside BMDC?

 AN 2 AN

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From: Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 11:18 PM
To: "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>, queenritamonkey@gmail.com <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>

Definitely!💯

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From: bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net <bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2023 10:59 PM
To: Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>; queenritamonkey@gmail.com <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>
Cc: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [bmdc-wg] Trans women competing in women's sports

 

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From: Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 11:20 PM
To: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, xulingkelley@gmail.com <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

Great points!❤️💯

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From: bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net <bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2023 10:59 PM
To: xulingkelley@gmail.com <xulingkelley@gmail.com>; john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Subject: RE: [bmdc-wg] Trans women competing in women's sports

 

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From: Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 11:21 PM
To: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>
Cc: lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>, BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

You understand no one ever said David and Jane weren't allowed to have a different position, yes? 

There was a consequence to their decisions. 

Permission structures and consequences are both fundamentally different, Antuan. Don't conflate the two. 

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From: Rita Fiorillo <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 11:26 PM
To: Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>
Cc: "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>

Ya'll are so unbelievably ridiculous. Cornel West is not "the left" no one person is "the left". The condemnation of Jane and David and BMDC came after months of unchecked transphobia. The only person who is owed an apology is Lita. If Cornel West thinks there should be a third category in sports for trans people than he isn't getting my support. I have to get up for work at 430am so I'm gonna go to bed. The three of you can keep playing this game of "we are the real victims here" all you like. You are only making yourselves look worse. You aren't convincing anyone of anything. John, give Dhruba the passwords.

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From: Justin Kosuk <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 11:32 PM
To: Rita Fiorillo <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>
Cc: Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>, "john.r.harris@verizon.net" <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>

So, there is now two people who went ahead and agreed that if Cornel has taken said stance, then he would not have our support. I am certain we aren't the only 2.

More important, this isn't something that should have to be answered, least of all entertained.

So what now, John? So far your assumptions have been incorrect.

Put the fallacy to rest and let's move on please. 

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From: Steve Kellerman <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:57 AM
To: <tenken764@gmail.com>
Cc: Rita Fiorillo <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>, Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>

Some nice language!

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From: Rita Fiorillo <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 10:10 AM
To: Steve Kellerman <bostonwob@gmail.com>
Cc: Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>, Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>

That's your take away? Well, if you like that kind of language you should see the text messages Heidi has been sending Lita. At least we are being open about or disdain and bad language and not just doing it private. We also never told the people we disagree with to go hang themselves so there's that.

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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 10:30 AM
To: <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>
Cc: Steve Kellerman <bostonwob@gmail.com>, Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>, Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>

Language and tone policing is a tactic of white supremacy and colonization. Its roots stem from colonizers calling black,indigenous,people of color, pacific islanders,etc "uncivilized".

Language and tone policing is a tactic used to villainize justified anger, to deflect from the real issue.

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From: Steve Kellerman <bostonwob@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 3:11 PM
To: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Cc: <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>, Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>, Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>

And here I thought it was only vile and vulgar language!

-Steve

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From: Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 3:18 PM
To: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, Rita Fiorillo <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>, Mike Heichman <michaelheichman@gmail.com>, Michael Heichman <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>, lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>

Antuan,

- Yes, David and Jane were expelled for having those positions. That is a fact. That's never been an argument.

- About sports:

Ok. I disagree with Dr. West, and I do not support his candidacy. He's not in this work group. What else would you like me to do about him? 

- David's holds positions about trans that are transphobic. Seeing as he still actively harbors those views, I'm not about to try and argue the case otherwise to someone who says he is a transphobe. 

- Effective/ineffective Permission structures:

When David or Jane take their position on trans topics such as gender dysphoria, are they reaching out to the trans community? 

Are they asking how their positions make them feel?

Did they do their research in tandem with other trans? 

Did they ever go into their positions with the understanding and awareness that they may get checked by individuals who have lived experience being trans? 

Knowing that they may very well be checked, are they open-minded and willing enough to reflect on what they learn; whether it's critique or recognition, and make the necessary adjustments so that their position more accurately aligns with the trans community?

Because those are all examples of an effective Permission Structure. 

When David and Jane took their positions, Did they take a stance without consulting or having discussions with those in the trans community? 

When they found out that what they shared was in fact offensive to those in the trans community, did David and Jane decide that this was their opinion and it must be respected, and so they continued sharing their views despite being told numerous times over weeks and months that it is hurtful to the community by those who are adversely affected by their positions?

Instead of exercising some introspection, did they argue back, feeling they are the victims of marginalized groups because they got a sharp and passionate response followed by an expulsion?

Do they still hold their positions without any view or counsel from a trans? 

Because those are all examples of an ineffective Permission Structure. 

- David and Jane made a choice, and the consequence was expulsion. No one ever said they can't have their opinions - but they aren't without consequence. 

-Let me simplify: 

Do you know what people who are hateful antitrans activists do with information that David and Jane share? It validates their oppressive and destructive actions they take against trans groups, and it sends a message that trans are not to be treated equally. 

And you expect those opinions to be respected? 

- Antuan, the dialogue that showed Jane calling Lita a man. Do you think it's right to expect Lita to respect that view? 

-Justin K.

On Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 12:37 PM Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com> wrote:

Justin,

It was voted to expel David & Jane because they have different positions, and that is a fact.

About sports:

David's & Jane's positions are very similar to Dr. West's position.

Puberty blockers are a relatively new treatment for gender dysphoria and opinions about their use in children vary (David 's position), which does not make someone a transphobe.

An effective Permission Structure helps people move to a new point of view in a way that feels rational, justified, and consistent with their existing core values.

An ineffective Permission Structure pushes people away and expels then from organizing circles.

Is that conflated enough for you?

 AN 2 AN

-------- Original message --------

From: Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>

Date: 7/18/23 11:20 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [bmdc-wg] Trans women competing in women's sports

You understand no one ever said David and Jane weren't allowed to have a different position, yes? 

There was a consequence to their decisions. 

Permission structures and consequences are both fundamentally different, Antuan. Don't conflate the two. 

On Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 11:00 PM Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com> wrote:

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From: john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 4:21 PM
To: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, tenken764@gmail.com <tenken764@gmail.com>
Cc: lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

Justin and Lita have openly declared "NO TERF ON OUR TURF!" They are among a group of people who openly declare that they seek to shut down BMDC or openly declare, in their own words, a "hostile takeover". These are open declarations. All of them are openly hostile to BMDC. The "NO TERF ON OUR TURF!" standard extends to any group they don't like. Justin and Mike are members of the Green Party, yet they will not apply their own standard to their own Green Party. They would rather bully BMDC. TERF or "Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist" is applied to anyone who they declare as "transphobic" or those who question trans women competing in women's sports. Cornel West calls for a 3rd category in sports. By their own standard, Mr. West would be labeled a TERF. Is Mr. West a TERF or not a TERF? And why is he treated differently? 

John 

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From: Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 4:29 PM
To: John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

What are you talking about, John? I never used the words hostile takeover, so why you quoting something I never said? 

How do you know what party I affiliate with? Did you see how many times I said I am not supporting Cornel West? 

I advise you revise your declarations, John. Your stepping into territory that will prompt legal action if you don't correct the record. I'm not playing around.

Justin K.

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From: Steve Kellerman <stevekellerman41@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 4:34 PM
To: <tenken764@gmail.com>
Cc: John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>, Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

Legal action! Call the cops!

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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 4:41 PM
To: Steve Kellerman <stevekellerman41@gmail.com>
Cc: <tenken764@gmail.com>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>, Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

once again John with his slandering and twisting everything around to fit his own narrative!

NOBODY was trying to shut down or take over BMDC!!!

Clearly John doesn't get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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From: john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 4:42 PM
To: tenken764@gmail.com <tenken764@gmail.com>
Cc: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

Would you label Dr. West a TERF?

John

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From: Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 4:50 PM
To: John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

John, Redact the words you have quoted me saying that I never said. 

I'm very serious about this. Redact your quotes. Now.

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From: john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:08 PM
To: tenken764@gmail.com <tenken764@gmail.com>
Cc: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

On June 18 Lita openly declared that the intervention was a "hostile takeover". You stand in solidarity with Lita. I thought I could assume that you are in solidarity with that intervention. Then I will not assume that you are in solidarity with that intervention or with the votes taken there. 

John 

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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:13 PM
To: john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: tenken764@gmail.com <tenken764@gmail.com>, Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

Stop twisting everything around you sick, abusive fuck!  The 6/18 meeting was RECORDED!

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From: Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:14 PM
To: John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

John, 

This isn't up for debate or speculation. It doesn't matter what I'm in solidarity with or where you think I stand. You literally have me in quotes saying words I never said. That's the problem.

Do it again, and you'll be receiving a cease and desist. Ignore that, and you will hear from my lawyer. I take this very seriously.

- Justin Kosuk

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From: Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:16 PM
To: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>, xulingkelley@gmail.com <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Cc: tenken764@gmail.com <tenken764@gmail.com>, Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>

Lita!  Is Dr. a TERF?

---

From: bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net <bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of Lita Xú Líng Kelley <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2023 5:13 PM
To: john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: tenken764@gmail.com <tenken764@gmail.com>; Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>; BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

 

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From: Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:16 PM
To: Justin Kosuk <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>, tenken764@gmail.com <tenken764@gmail.com>
Cc: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>, lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>

Justin!  Is Dr. West a TERF?

---

From: bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net <bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of Justin Kosuk <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2023 5:14 PM
To: John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>; lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>; BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

 

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From: Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:17 PM
To: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>

I'll send Heidi a cease and desist too if she doesn't stop. I hear she's been emailing you nonstop. 

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From: Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:17 PM
To: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>, xulingkelley@gmail.com <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Cc: tenken764@gmail.com <tenken764@gmail.com>, Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>

Lita!  Is Dr. West a TERF?

---

From: bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net <bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of Lita Xú Líng Kelley <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2023 5:13 PM
To: john.r.harris@verizon.net <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: tenken764@gmail.com <tenken764@gmail.com>; Antuan Castro Del Rio <joancaderibe@hotmail.com>; BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>

 

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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:20 PM
To: Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>

she has not emailed me outside of the list.  only texted the other day

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From: Justin Kosuk <tenken764@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:23 PM
To: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>

Ah ok. Ugh I feel that's worse in some ways!